Please start all the way at the very bottom. These comments were made as a result of my first wrongful termination, a suspension, for which elance issued an apology. I was supposed to have been warned, not suspended. And even then the grounds on which this occurred were dubious to everyone. I had made a joke in a post using an email as part of it, for example, yahoo@yahoo.com, and that was the basis for the suspension. Notice that the names are missing from the posts. Elance removed the names, I believe, shortly after media coverage of the cooler began to take place in March of 2001, following the arrest of their founder and general manager on charges of fraud. The removal of names is an attempt to remove credibility to the posts. And of course all W8R.COM posts would have been removed. When this suspension occurred, my partner Brian's 2KUL.COM account was used to log in and alert other users that W8R.COM had been wrongly suspended. Concerned providers opened new threads calling to Reinstate W8R and the postings ran similar to these, which took up here around 15 pages in the General category at the elance Water Cooler on 12.7.00. ------------------------ 512573 Looks like I missed a lot. Welcome back W8R! It looks like eLance is becoming more political every day. grrrrrr and I am constantly swatting at underbidders. Somebody just bid 8 bucks on a project I'm bidding on. ugh 07:35 am 07/Dec/2000 512462 w8r.com gald to see you back but we have to solve this freelance bid zero and get project thing..I will be thinking of you drinkng starbucks today..go get some sleep 06:53 am 07/Dec/2000 512418 Thanks for the invite W8R, but I think I can finely hit the sack (this staying up all night is for the owls LOL)...nite all 06:35 am 07/Dec/2000 512274 Sure, I'll check it out. I'm ready to call it a day too. Good night, W8R. 05:47 am 07/Dec/2000 512254 "Call it a day" as in just for today, or permanently? 05:43 am 07/Dec/2000 512247 Yikes! Maybe I can get a transfusion. 05:41 am 07/Dec/2000 512236 sorry, that should read "that hypnotizes people" - can you tell that I'm up REALLY late? 05:39 am 07/Dec/2000 512228 I keep thinking I should take a break from elance, too, but something always brings me back. Is there something in their html code the hypnotizes people, I wonder? 05:38 am 07/Dec/2000 512209 Will we see any more of 2kul, now that the crisis has been averted? 05:33 am 07/Dec/2000 512199 LOL, guess the one fear of Elance is that they could look bad, huh? LOL 05:31 am 07/Dec/2000 512183 Hmmm - I wonder if it WAS just a simple mistake, or whether all the outraged posts on the message boards had anything to do with it? 05:28 am 07/Dec/2000 512164 W8R - good to see you again! What happened - why did elance change their minds? 05:23 am 07/Dec/2000 512133 LOL, I'm glad to see you back! BTW I love the comment you left for the buy who cancelled the auction saying "noone showed good previous work". It defended us all! LOL 05:16 am 07/Dec/2000 512093 Ok, I'm not gone yet. Just had to point out something "odd". I was just running through some auctions that have closed to see if there's any additional information posted lately, and someone posted their entire profile on the public message board! I mean it takes up like 2 screens. Shouldn't there be rules about this? Or am I just being unreasonable? Also, in one of the threads I read through (not sure which one) someone mentioned that imagined only shows their portfolio through the private message board? Buyers beware that imagined also gets rude when their bid is declined without the board being opened to them. One more quick note, I thought in order to bid on jobs in the graphics of any kind that you HAD to have a portfolio of some kind posted on your profile. I was sure I read that somewhere? Anyone know for sure? 05:09 am 07/Dec/2000 512025 wow, gone from the message board for a day and look what you've all gone and done LOL Bou did I miss out, and yes, I stand with all of you on the suspension of W8R. I don't post as much as some of you, but I do read alot of your posts, and I took alot of W8R's advice and it has always led me in a better direction! It upsets me that Elance (who is supposed to be encouraging freelancers) only seems to want to push those that want to improve Elance away! I've been a member here for a few months now (or has it been a year? don't know), and I was a member when it was still beta. I cannot believe how greedy Elance has gotten, and how unprofessional they allow this site to be. While reading back through the posts, one of you posted a comment about building our own site? If you do stretch out to that one, I would love to get in on it. With as many talents that we have conversing on this board, IT CAN BE DONE! Phew! Ok so I got that off my chest. I was just up late, and just had to give an opinion. I don't have ANYONE's email, so if someone could tell Steve he has my support? Thanks all, and hey, I wish I had more time to get to know ya'll better, but by the time I get to sit down at the board, no one's hereLOL Night all (actually, good morning). 04:41 am 07/Dec/2000 511271 It's obvious to more than just a few of us... that we know how not to run an elance. The experience and intelligence found in a lot of the providers here makes me wonder if we should develop, together, a business plan and ponder incorporation ideas to start a new lance business based on the things we loathe about this one. The knowledge of this business is widespread among you, and there is no doubt in my mind that such a venture could be pulled off..with a lot of cooperation. elance competitors, by comparison, all lack in different areas, and it would be our mission to take these shortcomings and build an ideal lance entity that meets the fairness issues and other demands that we are all wishing for. I believe there should be minimum bids on all projects, the buyer should pay to RFP (even just a small amount discourages fraud), and there should be a set response time to choose winning providers when bidding is closed...no more dead RFP's. This could result in a win-win situation for the buyer and the provider, by removing these negative elements as best we can. anyone interested? Sean, Aedyn 01:37 am 07/Dec/2000 511029 That looks so negative, let's make it look better, YES DesignExpress YES! ......aaahhhhh that looks much better.... LOL 12:57 am 07/Dec/2000 510772 ...just me babbling, it's been a long day *grins* I just changed my isp and was told by them, that there is some sort of a new law going into effect - about only being able to send email from your own isp which is supposed to cut down on the redirected and fake spam mail, I've noticed a huge drop in the amount of spam mail I receive from the U.S.A. already, but a huge increase of spam mail from other countries. Has anybody heard if this new law will go national? ...just curious dj 12:29 am 07/Dec/2000 510038 Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself. -Potter Stewart 11:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 509633 Aedyn, I have two points to make with you: lol 1.) I can't stand injustice and having some sort of instance judgement calls or whatever dumb reason to let someone break the law(s) is wrong and it is doing an injustice to that person as laws exist to keep us from hurting ourselves and other people..... 2.) I think we could rock eLance. Let's all get together, make a business plan and develop a new eLance to blow them away....in honor of W8R! We could do it, for real. 10:38 pm 06/Dec/2000 509580 Hey, I'm sure none of us really have the money to put up for another freelance site, but what getting an investor or two? The market's ripe for the taking...eLance sure as heck doesn't care about making it a success for everyone. (They're not going to like me now.) 10:36 pm 06/Dec/2000 509564 LOL...Ron, take a deep breath. Next time, hit her with your car! 10:33 pm 06/Dec/2000 509545 ((whoooo whoooooo whooooo)) {{eyes blinking eeriely}} 10:32 pm 06/Dec/2000 509522 2kul - well, it's true! People are people....if we ever get to the point that we run after money to such a degree that human life, feelings and welfare are below the race for wealth and material goods, then we have dropped below animalistic levels and are hearts are getting stone cold. That's a bad place to be....people are important, they need to be thought of as important and in all cases we should think of others above ourselves - treat them as we would want to be treated in their situation.... 10:30 pm 06/Dec/2000 509482 But I'm freakin mad as heck when my license gets suspended and she gets away time and time again without anything.....it makes me mad. A law is a law, it's either obeyed or broken.....black and white....no ifs ands or butts.....and when that pretty girl kills another person because they were speeding and figured it didn't matter anymore because they never get in trouble, then those batty eyes are teary eyes and it's not a joke anymore..... :O) 10:28 pm 06/Dec/2000 509467 Rpolka that was eloquently expressed. You are a rare bird -- have you considered joining the Frisky Owls? There's room for other rare birds that aren't afraid of making the elance endangered species list. 10:26 pm 06/Dec/2000 509457 P.S. - 2kul - I was CRACKING UP (cracking UP UP UP! I say) when I saw your bid on the worm hole project!!!!! With MachCorp's stale response!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL As soon as I saw it I was gone.....!!LOLOLOL (in fact, I am gone now just thinking about it...sigh, lol) 10:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 509448 Oh it all just blows! Well, eLance can kiss my buttcheeks for all I care. I'd miss you guys, but eLance is going down the old terlet as far as I can see. 10:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 509444 Precisely and it's just so funny because by sending us an e-mail they thought they were cleverly addressing our calls for "equal treatment" when all they actually did was point up the very difference they wished to minimize -- I love it when foolish people attempt to be clever. 10:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 509432 You wouldn't be mad if you were the pretty girl, Ron. ;) hehe 10:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 509422 Now why do you think Steve wasn't given a warning like we were? Hmmm... A little fishy, eh 10:22 pm 06/Dec/2000 509417 2kul - we can bid on the same projects and even get mad at each other at times, but business is business but when a human being gets treated unfairly then we as human beings with hearts should stand up for them. Because after the business and the money are gone, human life and people's hearts remain......W8R is more important than some contract and some clients.... W8R needs to be respected as a person, a human and an individual and when eLance decides to do something like this when others run around doing worse and even the same thing and nothing happens to them, then something is terribly wrong and we should stand up with and for W8R or anyone else in that place.... It's like policeman who pull over a pretty girl for speeding and let her go when she bats her eyelashes. Then the same cop pulls over a guy and writes him up a big ticket....it's just wrong and makes me mad!! 10:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 509414 Absolutely not, Aedyn, though he may have gotten one a long time ago when a newbie or something - he can't remember but doubts it, since his actual name is the best contact anybody could ask for, he has no use to post email addresses. Same goes for my name. Besides, all mail that goes to the domain is harvested, so even typos addressed to the 2kul.com domain go to its owner. 10:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 509407 I find it amusing that now, even though we've all posted addys before and only when we remark upon the disparity, only now do we receive the "warning e-mail" -- when the only thing the action served to do, was illustrate the point that W8R was unjustifiably suspended as he had received no "warning e-mail." 10:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 509374 I just got a warning letter from eLance as well. Steve never received a warning letter before they suspended him, 2kul? 10:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 509341 Rpolka, again it is amazing to see this type of outpouring of support for W8R in here, especially since many of you bid on the same projects as he does, yet you have set apart personal and professional differences to stand for a just cause -- one of you has been publicly treated with a different response and publicy reproved because he has chosen to speak out in here for what he believes, and you recognize that as unfair. Elance could learn something from all of you when it comes to the issue of fairplay. I hope I can be as good a friend to those of you in here as you are to W8R.COM. 10:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 509301 Why don't we all call eLance and freak out and demand they return w8r!! 10:10 pm 06/Dec/2000 509286 Yes, you are correct, we do. Enabled, I might add only through the exchange of e-mail addys here. 10:10 pm 06/Dec/2000 509137 Aquinard, I am under the impression that many of you do speak privately, and W8R is amazed at the private messages he has received today, many from people who haven't even voiced anything in here but have read the posts, understood the situation and are sympathetic to the nature of this injustice, 09:58 pm 06/Dec/2000 509120 The fact that the word "community" floats above this message board I find to be a great irony . . . . are we not to be allowed to foster friendships and develop connections? What is the fear if we should begin to speak privately, one-to-one, what is it that they don't want us to share? 09:56 pm 06/Dec/2000 509063 "...There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches. Every minority, be it Baptist/Unitarian, Irish/Italian/Octogenarian/Zan Buddhist, Zionist/Seventh-day Adventist, Women's Lib/ Republican, Mattachine/FourSquareGospel feels it has the will, the right, the duty to douse the kerosene, light the fuse. Every dimwit editor who sees himself as the source of all dreary blanc-mange plain porridge unleavened literature, licks his guillotine and eyes the neck of any author who dares to speak above a whisper or write above a nursery rhyme...." -Ray Bradbury "Though I disagree with everything you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it." -NOT Voltaire; it was some scholar that was studying Voltaire, and summed up his beliefs in this statement "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -John Morley "Every burned book enlightens the world." -Ralph Waldo Emerson "Obviously, the danger is not in the actual act of reading itself, but rather, the possibility that the texts children read will incite questions, introduce novel ideas, and provoke critical inquiry." -Persis M. Karim (The New Assault on Libraries) "Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." -Charles Bradlaugh "The ultimate form of censorship is assassination." -George Bernard Shaw "Freedom of speech means that you shall not do something to people either for the views they have, or the views they express, or the words they speak or write." Hugo L. Black, U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1963 "Freedom of the press is not just important to democracy, it is democracy." Walter Cronkite, 1980 "If you can't annoy somebody with what you write, I think there's little point in writing." Kingsley Amis, British novelist, 1971 "You can cage the singer but not the song." Harry Belafonte, 1988 "When the conspiracy of lies surrounding me demands of me to silence the one word of truth given to me, that word becomes the one word I wish to utter above all others." Andre P. Brink, South African novelist, 1983 "Our whole constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds." Thurgood Marshall, 1969 "The freedom of the individual and rights of conscience will have no place in a society where government espouses a particular religious view of morality, one that has no room for deviation from the norm." Arlene Carmen, Civil Rights activist, 1986 "Free speech is life itself." Salman Rushdie, 1990 "Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine "To hear one voice clearly, we must have freedom to hear them all." Kerry Brock, of the Freedom Forum, 1997 "I am opposed to any form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson 09:46 pm 06/Dec/2000 508701 lol 08:55 pm 06/Dec/2000 508676 Oops, one r, two ns -- Tyranny - much better. 08:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 508663 Tyrrany Fears Scrutiny - sounds like a new thread! 08:51 pm 06/Dec/2000 508644 Marvelous analysis, Aquintard. Your own quote deserved to rank with the others. 08:49 pm 06/Dec/2000 508634 (that one's mine) 08:48 pm 06/Dec/2000 508632 aquintard : good show!! 08:48 pm 06/Dec/2000 508627 It is a form of censorship and it needs to be recognized as such. Only tyranny is afraid of scrutiny. 08:47 pm 06/Dec/2000 508612 YAY for Aquinard! You go, girl! 08:46 pm 06/Dec/2000 508579 Aquinard, that is brilliant, but I am not sure how encouraging it is for W8R.... there his again, EEEEEE, EEEEEE - what's a partner to do? 08:44 pm 06/Dec/2000 508541 "...There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches. Every minority, be it Baptist/Unitarian, Irish/Italian/Octogenarian/Zan Buddhist, Zionist/Seventh-day Adventist, Women's Lib/ Republican, Mattachine/FourSquareGospel feels it has the will, the right, the duty to douse the kerosene, light the fuse. Every dimwit editor who sees himself as the source of all dreary blanc-mange plain porridge unleavened literature, licks his guillotine and eyes the neck of any author who dares to speak above a whisper or write above a nursery rhyme...." -Ray Bradbury "Though I disagree with everything you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it." -NOT Voltaire; it was some scholar that was studying Voltaire, and summed up his beliefs in this statement "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -John Morley "Every burned book enlightens the world." -Ralph Waldo Emerson "Obviously, the danger is not in the actual act of reading itself, but rather, the possibility that the texts children read will incite questions, introduce novel ideas, and provoke critical inquiry." -Persis M. Karim (The New Assault on Libraries) "Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." -Charles Bradlaugh "The ultimate form of censorship is assassination." -George Bernard Shaw "Freedom of speech means that you shall not do something to people either for the views they have, or the views they express, or the words they speak or write." Hugo L. Black, U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1963 "Freedom of the press is not just important to democracy, it is democracy." Walter Cronkite, 1980 "If you can't annoy somebody with what you write, I think there's little point in writing." Kingsley Amis, British novelist, 1971 "You can cage the singer but not the song." Harry Belafonte, 1988 "When the conspiracy of lies surrounding me demands of me to silence the one word of truth given to me, that word becomes the one word I wish to utter above all others." Andre P. Brink, South African novelist, 1983 "Our whole constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds." Thurgood Marshall, 1969 "The freedom of the individual and rights of conscience will have no place in a society where government espouses a particular religious view of morality, one that has no room for deviation from the norm." Arlene Carmen, Civil Rights activist, 1986 "Free speech is life itself." Salman Rushdie, 1990 "Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." Heinrich Heine "To hear one voice clearly, we must have freedom to hear them all." Kerry Brock, of the Freedom Forum, 1997 "I am opposed to any form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson 08:42 pm 06/Dec/2000 508490 "When any government [or system]. . . undertakes to say to its subjects [or participants], 'This you may not read, this you must not see, [this you must not say,] this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." 08:36 pm 06/Dec/2000 508313 THESE PESKY POSTS KEEPS GETTING REMOVED. Wonder why they keep deleting them. FIRST, elance wrote ... Hello Gdcooya, I am following up on behalf of 'Netchakra', the eLance buyer who selected you for the project 'NetChakra, Inc Corporate website'. There was an agreemement that the payment made to you would be refunded and 'NetChakra' is awaiting the receipt of that payment. You may utilize the eLance billing and payment system to make the payment and close the project. Please contact the seller to discuss the payment or contact me if you need assistance making the payment via eLance. AND GDcooya responded with ... Dear Reuben (aka marketmaker), The offer, and it was just that on our part, was been rescinded by us some time ago and he's aware of this. You seem to be the one who replied to my earlier emails re: this buyer and I imagine that you're pretty much up tp speed on what happened with him. Just in case, I have attached some correspondence with him. Suffice it to say, that we are not interested in refunding his money as he still has two logo designs that we prepared for his job and also spent a total of three weeks in development re: the same. Our time is not something we give out for free and I am sure that you can impress that upon him. Frankly speaking, I am stunned at the attitude of eLance when it comes to buyer/seller disputes. Don't you people read the watercooler posts. There are a bunch of deadbeats out there who you seem to allow to repeatedly post RFP. Additionally, while you let his malicious, false and damaging feedback remain in our profile on the premise that the two of us "had an elance experience with each other", you delete the feedback that we left him. What about our damn experience. And to top it off, you're asking for his money. Why don't you hold his hand and come over to the office for the cheque! Since when did you guys get involved in disputes directly? Your message to me is also attached herein. Incidentally, you might want to contact **** (user : ****), the other winner of this RFP. He might also have an interesting story to tell about netChakra. If i'm not mistaken, the buyer stopped working with that provider simply because he asked why netChakra needed two design firms to do one job. I'd like to know the same, maybe you could ask him and let both of us know. I imagine one of them was going to be a victim of short payment, either us or ****. Regards, Ahsan 08:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 508245 And who knows how long he'll be gone? I wouldn't blame him if he didn't want to return. What a kick in the teeth, in an attempt just get things operatin fairly to reveal your soul before thousands in here daily, eating the meat and spitting out the bones, only to find that your reward is to be effortlessly cast aside. 08:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 508241 All the ones posted here earlier remain . . . .and I was able to get back in. 08:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 508229 Agreed. Selective and discriminating. Hmmm... Like we can't figure that out, huh? Shame on you, eLance. 08:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 508220 The only reason W8R even posted an email in here as because he saw others doing it, Aedyn. He had no idea that elance would use the incident to silence him. Sounds very gestapo to me. Aquinard, me2. 08:02 pm 06/Dec/2000 508209 Maybe not even so much as what he said, but how he said it. They couldn't very well cite that as the reason for suspending him though, now could they? 08:01 pm 06/Dec/2000 508195 I posted my addy under MarketMaker In-box and all they did was remove it. Why does he get suspended and I don't even get a warning? (I didn't know the rules applied to posting it in here, but then again, W8R probably didn't either.) eLance isn't playing fair. 08:00 pm 06/Dec/2000 508192 Yeah. I'm mystified. 08:00 pm 06/Dec/2000 508181 Aedyn, how could they not like what he was saying? It just doesn't make sense. 07:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 508177 I'm personally lobbying for everyone to post their addys here. 07:58 pm 06/Dec/2000 508112 Yes, Aedyn. Thanks for your concern in this matter. Steve must appreciate it. Nobody likes to be unfairly singled out for public mistreatment. Steve isn't even upset that this affects is business, cause it does. But he is more upset that elance chose to do this without provocation or warning. Could they possibly have been thinking he would just disappear? 07:51 pm 06/Dec/2000 508097 Doesn't make sense, 2kul. Can't help but believe that they just didn't like what he was saying. 07:49 pm 06/Dec/2000 508075 Soon after, gdcooya was terminated (no second chance) for indulging in fraudulent activities. Don't return a deposit to a buyer after you get screwed and it's condsidered FRAUD!!!! 07:47 pm 06/Dec/2000 508035 They deleted all of bingobob's posts!! Here's some of the good stuff that you guy'smight've missed out on... START Dear Reuben (he's a marketmaker), The offer, and it was just that on our part, was been rescinded by us some time ago and he's aware of this. You seem to be the one who replied to my earlier emails re: this buyer and I imagine that you're pretty much up tp speed on what happened with him. Just in case, I have attached some correspondence with him. Suffice it to say, that we are not interested in refunding his money as he still has two logo designs that we prepared for his job and also spent a total of three weeks in development re: the same. Our time is not something we give out for free and I am sure that you can impress that upon him. Frankly speaking, I am stunned at the attitude of eLance when it comes to buyer/seller disputes. Don't you people read the watercooler posts. There are a bunch of deadbeats out there who you seem to allow to repeatedly post RFP. Additionally, while you let his malicious, false and damaging feedback remain in our profile on the premise that the two of us "had an elance experience with each other", you delete the feedback that we left him. What about our damn experience. And to top it off, you're asking for his money. Why don't you hold his hand and come over to the office for the cheque! Since when did you guys get involved in disputes directly? Your message to me is also attached herein. Incidentally, you might want to contact **** (user : ****), the other winner of this RFP. He might also have an interesting story to tell about netChakra. If i'm not mistaken, the buyer stopped working with that provider simply because he asked why netChakra needed two design firms to do one job. I'd like to know the same, maybe you could ask him and let both of us know. I imagine one of them was going to be a victim of short payment, either us or ****. Regards, Ahsan END 07:45 pm 06/Dec/2000 507892 Thanks, Bazill. 07:35 pm 06/Dec/2000 507829 I just did some surfing. I think I understand. Props to you 2kul. 07:28 pm 06/Dec/2000 507762 bazillmer, anyone posting an email address in here must suffer the fate of W8R.COM and have their privileges suspended. It is now the only fair thing to do. And what's good for the goose, is good for the gander. 07:22 pm 06/Dec/2000 507737 there, suspend me. 07:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 507729 Who cares, this is for communications, not RFP. I know it's not allowed in the RFP's but here . . . that's stupid. True some buyers come in here, but hell, that's a very silly way to run a community. If we use these threads to plan partys, exchange recipes, parenting advice, network and give each other advice what gives?? I'm very disappointed in this organization if that's true. 07:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 507657 bazillmer, They claim it was because he posted his email address in here...the General Board. 07:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 507652 2kul : well put! 07:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 507646 Or you gave no indication of listening. 07:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 507635 Why? What? When? (Sam Kinison tone) SAY IT! SAAAAAY IIIIIIIIIIT! 07:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 507637 Amen, 2kul. Steve has been a wonderful support and advisor to many new users such as myself. I appreciate his wisdom and, regardless of what you might think, I find him to be a very fair person. He stands up for what he believes in. If he had to shout, it was because you didn't listen. 07:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 507619 Brian, W8R's account should not have been suspended. He should have been warned, if even that. You are trying to take him closer to termination because he is stepping on your elance toes. This move takes him so close that all he needs to do is look the wrong way -- which he has been known to do -- and he's out of here. He doesn't need your threats of termination, which are nothing more than attempts to silence him in this forum. He should be sent monetary reimbursement by elance for helping to build this entity into something worthwhile by invesing his consulting expertise into this marketplace by spending time and energy here free of charge. 07:11 pm 06/Dec/2000 507611 MarketMaker, Would you please be so kind to answer my post in the MarketMaker In-box Board? Thanks. 07:10 pm 06/Dec/2000 507601 He got suspended. 07:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 507597 What the hell happened?? 07:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 507592 --**-- Just tell him we said FFFFFF! :þ 07:08 pm 06/Dec/2000 507576 I've talked to Steve, and he is grateful that so many of you have rallied around his reinstatement even though we are all competitors in here, it is very impressive. And he is very distraught. He just looks at me, going EEEEEE, EEEEEE 07:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 507568 Even then . . . they could bounce it for any damned reason. I'll communicate with their printer, but unless you have a good relationship with the client. Local is cool, accross the country . . . no thanks. Right now there's an RFP in the design section for printing. No design, just printing. S*** go to Kinko's. P.S. Whahappen to W8R?? 07:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 507549 hey I thought we where eLancers, not Customers.....;) Brain has gone corporate on us. 8( 07:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 507532 yep! I do. Unless you own the press, or have everything delivered to you first as well as matchprints, then ya, I agree..it's suicide 07:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 507519 If an account is suspended for violating our Terms and Conditions (TAC), the customer can send an email to --**--, stating their intent to comply with the TAC. Once we receive that email, the account will be re-instated. If a customer violates the TAC after that, then the account will be permanently terminated. Once an account is terminated, then the customer is currently banned from eLance. In the case of W8R.com, the account has not been terminated, just suspended. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me at --**-- attn: Brian. Signed, Brian 07:02 pm 06/Dec/2000 507492 Any other creatives here think that providing printing on the creative RFP's is suicide? 06:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 507487 fredgrott: gdcooya's profile hasn't been removed either, but neither user can log in and communicate with a buyer or bid on job. I think they're just lazy here about dumping the rest of the data on the banned users. 06:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 507382 I just checked w8r.com profile is not deleted I think that might be a possitive sign! 06:48 pm 06/Dec/2000 507286 Foolish georgeo! Don't mistake activism for positive change as whining. I look forward to seeing you post your project . . . . will I turn blue if I hold my breath for it? 06:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 507273 Thanks susan..its better than no news at all :) 06:40 pm 06/Dec/2000 507265 You know its funny when someone wants to censor they use the word monitor..when they want to help they use the word interact with or listen to.. 06:40 pm 06/Dec/2000 507262 As I said, Fred, that's all I know about that. I just thought I'd pass it on. ;) 06:39 pm 06/Dec/2000 507236 Susan I don't mean to be mean but I wouldn't ake that too far until they actually respond to email wihtin 4 hours..as of yet I have had responses about a week later saying oh we know we have system problems..well duh... 06:37 pm 06/Dec/2000 507216 so, 2kul, think w8r and gdcooya will get reinstated? 06:35 pm 06/Dec/2000 507207 Don't work too hard..I still have some 3d work to do for the weeknd so that I can get some bills paid..its lucky I kept doing my 3d work on the side instead of relying on elance site..just got word from my selling vendor that they have made their site real time credit card processing so my sales should take off now! I will be drinking starbucks tommorrow night at chess club at Borders will n\be think of steve..later.. 06:35 pm 06/Dec/2000 507196 I actually spoke with H**** recently. She is now in a different position and seemed quite happy about it, although very busy. There is a new team of Market Makers who monitor the cooler and answer our e-mail concerns. eLance now employs over a hundred employees and growing. That's all I know about that. 2kul, As I understand it you are Steve's (W8R.com) business partner? I seem to recall a couple of posts where he mentions you. He must be standing over your shoulder fuming right now. I have to agree with MEC, rules must be enforced uniformly or they lose their authority. This does seem too selective to be impartial. -Susan 06:34 pm 06/Dec/2000 507170 Well, I do have work to do, plus I need to make a sandwich, turkey and provolone, melted, on Orowheat French bread. And maybe I'll pick Steve up something at Starbucks yet today. 06:32 pm 06/Dec/2000 507133 True..I like elances policy aboiut project acceptance..so much I complained to elance that I will only accept projects that I can get credit check on clients completed and told them it would take 3 days per project..still have hard no word in 3 months over their suppoosed fix of project acceptance to allow for that act of professionalism on my part. 06:28 pm 06/Dec/2000 507112 Fred, hard to figure out what is going on when the invisible actually disappear, no? 06:26 pm 06/Dec/2000 507104 georgo please choose MachCopr as proejct winner..then complain to elance when your buyer rights are not protected... 06:26 pm 06/Dec/2000 507094 I think some elance MarketMakers got canned can't find their profiles..hmm what does that mean? 06:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 507089 Like I said, Georgeo. We're not interested. Perhaps try an elance Quality Checkmark Guarantee firm? Some of them need to beef up their Transaction Histories. Good luck. 06:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 507080 georgeo: i'm so glad that you have better things to do...go on run your business. 06:24 pm 06/Dec/2000 507071 georgo you don't get this if my legal rights as freelncer are not protected neither are yours as buyer especially when a porrject is not completed to the contracted specvs.. 06:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 507066 georgo. That's amazing you could size someone up so well in only two days..you are truly talented. 06:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 507048 one more before i go (hmm, this is addictive) - - as i said, i am no longer interseted in w8r.com due to what i've seen here. nothing against your work, just worried about how you would deal and communicate with me personally as a client, which is important with this new way of doing business over the web. 06:22 pm 06/Dec/2000 507037 georgeo : you don't work for elance do you? 06:22 pm 06/Dec/2000 507026 georgo I can't deally blindly with buyers..elance want us elancer to sign over our legal rights to be protected on aproject which is no way to deal with a B2B site if you want business. Now think georgo would you buy a $7,500 item with out expecting some credit check or amoung other checks to ensure the contract is completed? 06:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 507016 kind of you to respond. 06:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 507008 Besides, georgeo, you don't sound like anyone we'd be interested in working with. Please look elsewhere. 06:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 506999 i'm not anonymous, just new. this board links to my seller profile, but i plan to act as a buyer here. i don't think having a profile is necessary right now, since i'll disclose info when i post projects or contact user from their profile. george is my real name. anyway, talk to you all later - i have a business to run. 06:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 506988 Georgeo, you couldn't choose W8R right now if you wanted to. he is suspended. As a buyer, you might want to take that up with elance. I'm sure you will hear from them within the next few hours. They respond rapidly to buyer comments in here that attest to not using the services for one reason or another. For the record, Steve selects the projects he chooses to work on. Since 2KUL does not have any fixed-price offerings right now, if you would like to submit something for our consideration it would not be possible. But thanks for your consideration. 06:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 506979 what should i reread? i'm just referring to the amount of time spent here, when all that's said seems to be negative. i'm all for improving this site, but if you really have so much against it, why stay? buyers don't want to deal with whiners who don't act professionally. 06:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 506974 and notice I refuse to post anonymously..my user name is my real name that I pay business taxes under.. 06:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 506961 well no one at elance as a freelancer trying to real project and getting scammed has been their selves lately including me..so tell steve he is not the only one feeling the way he does..there are a lot of freelancers here finnally waking up to the situation.. 06:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 506953 georgeo; I'm glad to just catch you for a minute, personally i don't usually bother responding to people (buyer or seller) who can't bother to post some information about themselves. It's interesting that an anonymous personality is so outspoken! 06:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 506944 that was suppose to be re-read the below posts..sorry for lost word... 06:17 pm 06/Dec/2000 506936 Fred, you rebel! I think he'll pass..... more than enough controversy in here to deal with. While he can no longer voice his opinion as W8R.COM, I'm sure he will have plenty to say over the next few weeks so I wouldn't count him out of the picutre yet. He's been very vocal this morning to some other elancers, though, I have to admit, this is all getting to him. He just hasn't been himself lately. 06:16 pm 06/Dec/2000 506930 georgeo we do not repeat do not condone dead beat buyers here..you might be misunderstood..please the below posts before responding again.. 06:16 pm 06/Dec/2000 506922 boy, 2kul. your partner and you certainly put a lot of energy into posting on elance, which you seem to really dislike. how come you keep coming back and spending so much time here? as a buyer, i'm looking for sellers who are too busy with work to whine. i was amused by w8r's bowtie image and was considering sending some work your way, but have since lost my interest. i guess you wouldn't have wanted to get business from an elance buyer anyway since you both seem so negative. 06:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 506903 I vote Steve in as President of the FreelancersAre Professionals Union! 06:12 pm 06/Dec/2000 506874 It will be 2kul.com/elance, but it isn't open yet and probably won't be for a few hours. 06:10 pm 06/Dec/2000 506861 Actually, he is preparing a plae on 2kul.com where he will be posting for visitor download all mail he has received from elance since visiting the water cooler. I'll keep you posted. 06:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 506806 BingoBob, Steve is great. He says thanks for your concern! 06:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 506765 fredgrott : read my posts down below. it'll give you some insight into what this place is all aobut. 05:57 pm 06/Dec/2000 506743 2kul.com, thanks for the advice!! How are you doing? please pass on my regards to Steve. 05:55 pm 06/Dec/2000 506728 and to be perfectly honest if I perform a porject according to contract I will get paid no matter what elance claims to the contrary becasue its backed up by my project contract..! Elance has always stated that they will not interfere in a contract between a freelancer and project poster..yet they are violating their own rule and entering into a legqal mine field all the same..why? 05:54 pm 06/Dec/2000 506700 eLanceMarketMaker,,glad to finally see you respond to something however, what about my emails to customerservice pointing out false projects and such..??? and not to mention the unprofessional we will only qualify those providers who abandon the invoice factor vendors to use elances we will delay your money payment system? 05:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 506606 Bob, I wouldn't give him any refund. Better yet, bill him for the rest of the project and start tacking on late charges if he ignores you. 05:45 pm 06/Dec/2000 506583 Bingobob, there is now a Hostage To The Buyer thread on the third page, thanks to the suspeneded W8R.COM. And while you're on page 3 be sure to check out the Frisky Owls Club. You might like that one. 05:44 pm 06/Dec/2000 506478 the buyer is King and we are all slaves, to be disposed of when we speak out of turn. 05:38 pm 06/Dec/2000 506474 Ahsan VS. Raj Round 10 *DING!* 05:37 pm 06/Dec/2000 506443 The below was in response to .... Hello Gdcooya, I am following up on behalf of 'Netchakra', the eLance buyer who selected you for the project 'NetChakra, Inc Corporate website'. There was an agreemement that the payment made to you would be refunded and 'NetChakra' is awaiting the receipt of that payment. You may utilize the eLance billing and payment system to make the payment and close the project. Please contact the seller to discuss the payment or contact me if you need assistance making the payment via eLance. 05:34 pm 06/Dec/2000 506431 And this is what got us here. we must have pissed someone off, proabably reuben. Dear Reuben, The offer, and it was just that on our part, was been rescinded by us some time ago and he's aware of this. You seem to be the one who replied to my earlier emails re: this buyer and I imagine that you're pretty much up tp speed on what happened with him. Just in case, I have attached some correspondence with him. Suffice it to say, that we are not interested in refunding his money as he still has two logo designs that we prepared for his job and also spent a total of three weeks in development re: the same. Our time is not something we give out for free and I am sure that you can impress that upon him. Frankly speaking, I am stunned at the attitude of eLance when it comes to buyer/seller disputes. Don't you people read the watercooler posts. There are a bunch of deadbeats out there who you seem to allow to repeatedly post RFPs. Additionally, while you let his malicious, false and damaging feedback remain in our profile on the premise that the two of us "had an elance experience with each other", you delete the feedback that we left him. What about our damn experience. And to top it off, you're asking for his money. Why don't you hold his hand and come over to the office for the cheque! Since when did you eLance get involved in disputes directly? Your message to me is also attached herein. Incidentally, you might want to contact Ben Hammans (user : The-Acute), the other winner of this RFP. He might also have an interesting story to tell about netChakra. If i'm not mistaken, the buyer stopped working with that provider simply because he asked why netChakra needed two design firms to do one job. That was enough insubordination for them to lose the work! Never question the master! I'd like to have the same answer, maybe you could ask him and let both of us know. I imagine one of them was going to be a victim of short payment, either us or The-Acute. Raj is an idiot (a stronger word needs to be used, but you may delete it) and the fact that you're supporting him makes me question the eLance system and the "integrity of the marketplace" as you so eloquently put it. Ban us from you site, if that's what makes you happy, but know this... it's the sellers who are providing your buyers with quality work. If we go, then your lovely business model starts to fall apart because you'll have shit for service offerings. And where will that leave the great guarantee check mark? Regards, Ahsan 05:33 pm 06/Dec/2000 506415 better ead this quick before they delete it!!!! first I was GDcooya, then ahsan.at.work, now i'm Bingobob and in 5 mins, when they remove this, i'll be ...? Okay, this just in from marketmaker... START Hello Gdcooya, Unfortunately, I have had to delete your account due to your several violations of our terms and conditions which prohibit fraudulent transactions. If you have any questions, please contact us. Best Regards, eLance Marketplaces Team END This seemingly refers to a spat we had with buyer "netChakra" I'll be posting those messages here. It can't be a reference to anything else, because there hasn't been another ****ASSHOLE**** like this buyer. He claimed to be friends with the CEO at eLance and I guess he wasn't kidding. 05:32 pm 06/Dec/2000 506310 Okay, this just in from marketmaker... START Hello Gdcooya, Unfortunately, I have had to delete your account due to your several violations of our terms and conditions which prohibit fraudulent transactions. If you have any questions, please contact us. Best Regards, eLance Marketplaces Team END This seemingly refers to a spat we had with buyer "netChakra" I'll be posting those messages here. It can't be a reference to anything else, because there hasn't been another ****ASSHOLE**** like this buyer. He claimed to be friends with the CEO at eLance and I guess he wasn't kidding. 05:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 506255 rpolka it sounds like it is indefinite - I don't think W8R intends to come back. He will lose his transaction history if he doesn't which most of you know is the most important selling tool one can have in here, especially when it reflects hihg numbers. But Steve is grateful for the work he secured here this year, he says 1 out of 3 buyers turned out to be deadbeats, but that's okay. He paid his bills through September. A very nice thing to have happen for any freelancer. And he owes much of that to elance (the old elance). 05:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 506245 Okay, this just in from marketmaker... START Hello Gdcooya, Unfortunately, I have had to delete your account due to your several violations of our terms and conditions which prohibit fraudulent transactions. If you have any questions, please contact us. Best Regards, eLance Marketplaces Team END This seemingly refers to a spat we had with buyer "netChakra" I'll be posting those messages here. It can't be a reference to anything else, because there hasn't been another ****ASSHOLE**** like this buyer. He claimed to be friends with the CEO at eLance and I guess he wasn't kidding. 05:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 506217 Protest one and all! Use all available elance orifices. Get the word out. Freelancers won't be low caste. 05:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 506195 Is it a suspension - is an after you pay your time you get allowed back??? how long?? 05:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 506188 I'm going to miss H****y. She seemed to be very friendly. But I won't talk about her anymore. 05:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 506176 2kul - LOL 05:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 506144 Oops, I posted her name in direct response to Brian's request to not do so, please don't get rid of me! IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!!!! 05:16 pm 06/Dec/2000 506135 H*****y is gone? I didn't know. My bad! :) 05:16 pm 06/Dec/2000 506126 Gosh, sounds like Hilary got suspended too. 05:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 506121 Brian, what is going on with W8R - he has a very loyal following group here???? 05:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 506108 Definat, the water cooler is to be a place where people break away from their routines to get refreshment. It isn't intended to be a place fo controversy. That is where W8R got in trouble, by trying to voice opinions in a forum that isn't deisgned for that. But where is he supposed to go when elance doesn't return phone calls or emails, this is the only place left. 05:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 506106 I think I'll be next - I posted a comment in the public board on a project saying something about a provider I know to do shady work (winning on eLance for $4000 and selling on Ants for $1000) and they say they are going to email eLance with the comment I made, etc. - and take legal action or some crap. Problem is, the buyer they tried to do that to is sitting back waiting for them to fold and then gonna give me the project and HE IS MAD AT THEM for what they did.....I'm real frustrated....why don't we all get together and make a site to blow eLance away??? 05:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 506100 The Market Maker Team is looking into this issue. Hilary is no longer the Market Maker, so please refrain from posting her name on the board. Signed Brian 05:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 506049 Elance "marketplace" LOL 05:12 pm 06/Dec/2000 506007 Things won't be the same around here without Steve. I hope that this issue is resolved smoothly and he is allowed to return. Even though he sparks many controversial issues, his opinions are a vital part to examining and improving the marketplace. 05:10 pm 06/Dec/2000 505992 you could be right defiant, but I think Hilary has moved on. 05:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 505985 you're contact info here ---> you're head here ---> 05:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 505948 Any final words? [sound of axe chopping flesh and bone agian] 05:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 505944 what a time for my modem to go on an update..and i have to go out till about 8.pm EST but I sahll return..indeed i shall! 05:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 505926 MEC - Brian is the Marketmaker Analyist. I think Hilary is still a marketmaker. 05:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 505919 M.E.C. I agree completetly and glad you do to on this... 05:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 505902 where the heck is market maker admist all this controversy??????? 05:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 505874 2Kul, not anymore. Brian is I think. 05:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 505859 I'll say this, alot of "US" have been complaining about violators running through eLance and how eLance needs to crack down on these folks. I'm glad they took action,But suspending W8R was a wrong move. I better see alot of other eLancers suspended or removed completely as the days go on................................. 05:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 505857 It was nice knowin' ya. Bye. [sound of axe chopping flesh and bone] FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!! 05:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 505852 This is sick, what kind of business are they running??? 05:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 505810 I seem to also have been suspended as "GDcooya" although my profile and bids are still there. Wasn't fortunate enough to get an email from them though! I guess they'll ban this identity to soon enough. What's funny is that I haven't a clue what I did wrong!!! Marketmaker, maybe an explanation is in order. 05:02 pm 06/Dec/2000 505778 Hilary is marketmaker. 05:00 pm 06/Dec/2000 505753 who the heck is Hillary??? 04:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 505745 We will rally the Troopers. the game has begun. liais you must join us! 04:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 505724 Okay, liais, nice meeting you. I've seen you in here before and appreciate your wisdom and opinion. I'll let him know. 04:58 pm 06/Dec/2000 505702 Steve is under the impression that elance has less and less to offer as the days go by, and may not be worth the effort to continue in here. I understand his position completely. 04:57 pm 06/Dec/2000 505693 I'm here, keeping an eye on things. Trying to finish a proposal by the "end" of the day, so I'm typing away and refreshing my browser at the same time...I'll be back later to see what I can make of this latest event. 04:56 pm 06/Dec/2000 505691 2kul say hello to Steve!..we will fight the GOOD fight! keep us informed. 04:56 pm 06/Dec/2000 505670 MEC, Steve wrote Hillary and questioned this action, especialy in light of her own pesonal request for him to not post any portions of the Follow Up letter, to which he agreed. Hillary wrote back and said he needed to call some long distance number and speak to Brian, but Steve has not responded to that yet. I suspect he won't. 04:55 pm 06/Dec/2000 505643 I just saw LogoBell and any sort of thing like it to come along as another form of protest. I don't think there's a freelancer in here who has not felt like cracking one over elance's hard, thick skull for all the sham freelance opportunity that elance touts. LogoBell was like an Andy Kaufman! 04:54 pm 06/Dec/2000 505632 2Kul, So has there been any further contact from eLance regarding W8R's suspension? 04:53 pm 06/Dec/2000 505626 OK, but I do expect elance to once again take a post out of context and suspend me for putting up Steve's letter today. But it was nice to see some of you take offense at the unfairness of this. Steve will appreciate it. Later. 04:53 pm 06/Dec/2000 505607 It is clearly the contact info they are referring to! 04:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 505601 Jucie, where you at. I know it's 5:00...... 04:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 505593 Bye 2kul. Keep us posted, k? Nice to meet you again. :) 04:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 505588 well i got class to see you later MAYbe 04:51 pm 06/Dec/2000 505874 2Kul, not anymore. Brian is I think. 05:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 505859 I'll say this, alot of "US" have been complaining about violators running through eLance and how eLance needs to crack down on these folks. I'm glad they took action,But suspending W8R was a wrong move. I better see alot of other eLancers suspended or removed completely as the days go on................................. 05:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 505857 It was nice knowin' ya. Bye. [sound of axe chopping flesh and bone] FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!! 05:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 505852 This is sick, what kind of business are they running??? 05:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 505810 I seem to also have been suspended as "GDcooya" although my profile and bids are still there. Wasn't fortunate enough to get an email from them though! I guess they'll ban this identity to soon enough. What's funny is that I haven't a clue what I did wrong!!! Marketmaker, maybe an explanation is in order. 05:02 pm 06/Dec/2000 505778 Hilary is marketmaker. 05:00 pm 06/Dec/2000 505753 who the heck is Hillary??? 04:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 505745 We will rally the Troopers. the game has begun. liais you must join us! 04:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 505724 Okay, liais, nice meeting you. I've seen you in here before and appreciate your wisdom and opinion. I'll let him know. 04:58 pm 06/Dec/2000 505702 Steve is under the impression that elance has less and less to offer as the days go by, and may not be worth the effort to continue in here. I understand his position completely. 04:57 pm 06/Dec/2000 505693 I'm here, keeping an eye on things. Trying to finish a proposal by the "end" of the day, so I'm typing away and refreshing my browser at the same time...I'll be back later to see what I can make of this latest event. 04:56 pm 06/Dec/2000 505691 2kul say hello to Steve!..we will fight the GOOD fight! keep us informed. 04:56 pm 06/Dec/2000 505670 MEC, Steve wrote Hillary and questioned this action, especialy in light of her own pesonal request for him to not post any portions of the Follow Up letter, to which he agreed. Hillary wrote back and said he needed to call some long distance number and speak to Brian, but Steve has not responded to that yet. I suspect he won't. 04:55 pm 06/Dec/2000 505643 I just saw LogoBell and any sort of thing like it to come along as another form of protest. I don't think there's a freelancer in here who has not felt like cracking one over elance's hard, thick skull for all the sham freelance opportunity that elance touts. LogoBell was like an Andy Kaufman! 04:54 pm 06/Dec/2000 505632 2Kul, So has there been any further contact from eLance regarding W8R's suspension? 04:53 pm 06/Dec/2000 505626 OK, but I do expect elance to once again take a post out of context and suspend me for putting up Steve's letter today. But it was nice to see some of you take offense at the unfairness of this. Steve will appreciate it. Later. 04:53 pm 06/Dec/2000 505607 It is clearly the contact info they are referring to! 04:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 505601 Jucie, where you at. I know it's 5:00...... 04:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 505593 Bye 2kul. Keep us posted, k? Nice to meet you again. :) 04:52 pm 06/Dec/2000 505588 well i got class to see you later MAYbe 04:51 pm 06/Dec/2000 505374 MEC - just saw your welcome back down there, nice meeting you. 04:44 pm 06/Dec/2000 505369 Post anywhere and everywhere available. Freedom of Speech, Baby! --Telly Savalis 04:44 pm 06/Dec/2000 505357 Entropy...I replied. See if I made any sense, k? I kinda babbled through it...LOL 04:43 pm 06/Dec/2000 505349 We know steve LOL! 04:43 pm 06/Dec/2000 505335 Is there a rule about what you can post on the public board (besides contact info, natch)? Mach's posts were annoying, but I didn't know they were illegal. I don't know, MEC. As I said before, I thought he was just joking. He was charging $5 for it for crying out loud! 04:43 pm 06/Dec/2000 505332 So, till they shut ME down, I'm on your side. 04:43 pm 06/Dec/2000 505329 Frisk the Elance Managment Club ...whats that? 04:43 pm 06/Dec/2000 505318 Well, the Quality Checkmark people must be all relieved, thinking W8R is gone but know what? I'M HERE! 04:42 pm 06/Dec/2000 505314 Youre Cute I Love you, they got eliminated. And LogoBell.-- remember them? 04:42 pm 06/Dec/2000 505307 Troopers Time to rally Our time has come!!!! 04:42 pm 06/Dec/2000 505302 Dreamseer, mine 04:42 pm 06/Dec/2000 505300 I am assuming on MachCopr have not confirmed it yet.. 04:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 505295 eLance is a joke.....why would they ban him??? does anyone have his email address????????????? 04:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 505286 M.E.C. If you read the letter from eLance that is posted you will see that it clearly staes the SUSPENSION IS FOR POSTING CONTACT INFO PUBLICLY 04:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 505278 MOm i dont have your email 04:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 505276 No MEC, Steve posted that as a joke...he did not give the email out. (I tried to get it, he wouldn't let me have it) LOL 04:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 505270 MachCorp got it for reposting the bid to the project boards in double messages..remember the buyer gets all those messages.. 04:41 pm 06/Dec/2000 505263 Okay, eric. But let's not have that as our battle cry, okay? 04:40 pm 06/Dec/2000 505244 The Frisky Owl Club?? How come I wasn't invited? 2kul, you let Steve know I am very disappointed now..... 04:39 pm 06/Dec/2000 505241 hey - who else got suspended??? 04:39 pm 06/Dec/2000 505233 You have to penetrate all available orafices! 04:39 pm 06/Dec/2000 505229 Yeah but some have dropped out already after losing 15% of money through that system... 04:39 pm 06/Dec/2000 505220 This thing to do is to post on all available boards, including the project boards whether or not you are bidding. 04:39 pm 06/Dec/2000 505210 Fred, it is no great loss if they do ban everybody in here. They're big moneymakes are the Quality Checkmarked people, non of which is an active supporter of Steve's idas in here. Elance doesn't want to lose THEM! 04:38 pm 06/Dec/2000 505208 Sorry, I'm back. Had to take a phone call. Now I'll have to catch up... 04:38 pm 06/Dec/2000 505204 who else?? MachCorp?? 04:38 pm 06/Dec/2000 505196 Who else got it well beside MAchCorp.. 04:38 pm 06/Dec/2000 505187 OK ELANCE i know for a fact most of us who have been here for more then 3or 4 months have posted contact information on the board ,and a lot have done it on bids so what gives 04:37 pm 06/Dec/2000 505183 I don't want to get intangled in this, and by no means defending eLance, but...did W8R actually give away the emails that pertained to the elance program? Just curious. and welcome to the cooler 2Kul, sorry about your partner. Although, I think with his skills he'll be fine for the duration of the suspenstion. what a weird thing for eLance to do! 04:37 pm 06/Dec/2000 505167 We should all post that servie offer on all our profiles..gee will elance ban everybody? LOL 04:37 pm 06/Dec/2000 505148 Looks like there have been a couple more suspensions. People are beginning to disappear! elance KGB? 04:36 pm 06/Dec/2000 505141 Well, it has been refreshing to see most of you backing up Steve in this. I'm sure he's very grateful. I understand he was fun to have around sometimes, and even created the Frisky Owl Club for some of his feathery friends in here. 04:36 pm 06/Dec/2000 505136 fred - ROFLROFL 04:36 pm 06/Dec/2000 505102 The model of a successful marketplace is ebay. The model of an unsuccessful marketplace is elance. (It's like we wait in line for a crumb of bread without any recourse or encouragement. Talk about winter in Soviet Moscow -- or freelance Siberia!) 04:34 pm 06/Dec/2000 505097 A want to see why I might be next in being banned go to my profiel and llok at my last servie offer..its very interesting..LOL 04:33 pm 06/Dec/2000 505082 No names mentioned, LOL. I am sure with these recent posts, I will be gone next....at least everyone has my email, so you can keep in touch! LOL 04:33 pm 06/Dec/2000 505078 Thank you, Jackie. Nice to meet you. 04:33 pm 06/Dec/2000 505067 kul, no one knows how far the long arm of the eLance police reaches! 04:32 pm 06/Dec/2000 505039 Who, me???? LOL, Mom! 04:31 pm 06/Dec/2000 505034 Wow, gone for a day and come back to this. I know many people have been turned in for posting their e-mail addresses on the RFP boards, but W8R gets canned? Just when I thought eLance couldn't do anything to look even worse than before, they do this. I'm sure it's been said a million times today, but Steve was dumped because he is too vocal a critic. eLance, you look ridiculous. Start dumping the a**holes who violate your "rules" everyday on the boards. And welcome to the boards 2kul. 505030 2kul.com email me you can find what is needed at the previous url I gave out..Later will check in tommorrow morning.. 04:31 pm 06/Dec/2000 505024 Aedyn, did you get my email? 04:30 pm 06/Dec/2000 505020 Entropy, I can't get suspended for doing whatever I want outside the elance markerplace... YET!! OR CAN I? 04:30 pm 06/Dec/2000 505014 Not to mention, two people on here not only exchanged emails, but worked out a "project", they are still here....this is obviously not about the contact info, rather the content of the post...... 04:30 pm 06/Dec/2000 505008 Precisely -- I want a board full of e-mail addresses to point to when I say to e-lance, "gee you guys better get busy (how much money will you lose?) or you need to reinstate W8R . . . . etc. 04:30 pm 06/Dec/2000 504999 I'd love to see them, kul. Hope you don't get suspended. 04:29 pm 06/Dec/2000 504995 I thinkk I even have the eamil from May from elance explaining this first warning policy.. 04:29 pm 06/Dec/2000 504984 get this according to elance's own policy a warning is given first with no supsension so who goofed up? 04:29 pm 06/Dec/2000 504979 Well, also, Aquinard, other people are not immediately removed from the system after posting their contact information, why did they do this to Steve? 04:29 pm 06/Dec/2000 504961 I read it as "you have posted contact info" and that is "against our rules" -- they're trying to make it seem as if it has nothing to do with the content of the post but only that you posted contact info -- I think . . . (even though their motives are crystalline) 04:27 pm 06/Dec/2000 504953 Cool I will post my stuff got from elance too..maybe we can have a web party 04:27 pm 06/Dec/2000 504946 I wont post my address (although I did once). I intend on raising cain in here til Im blue in the face. They are going to start to give us the credit we deserve for being their commodity or they'll continue to get derided and chastized for their anemic effort and complete lack of sense. 04:27 pm 06/Dec/2000 504942 Entropy, hope you don't mind, we have forwarded some of the letters to you that Steve received on this isuse. 04:27 pm 06/Dec/2000 504937 Hold on, I'll email you. 04:27 pm 06/Dec/2000 504925 Glad to see you too Aedyn......I wasn't even coming here today, but I got an email from Steve, and figured I better pop in....Everything is fine with me, just been extremely busy!! 04:26 pm 06/Dec/2000 504900 Yes, Entropy? 04:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 504895 kul, I actually took that as a joke. No email from eLance is worth $5.00 to me, no matter what. 04:25 pm 06/Dec/2000 504883 I'll go check it now. Thanks Mom. I'm glad to see you. Wish it could be under different circumstances though... stupid eLance 04:24 pm 06/Dec/2000 504869 It's not enough to just post you remail, that is not why they said they suspended him. He was joking about selling a letter they sent him asking for his opinion on usng the Quality Guarantee Program. Hello Steve, It has come to our attention that you have recently posted contact information on the General Message Board. Please note this is a violation of our Terms and Conditions as posted at http://www.elance.com/c/static/main/displayhtml.pl?&cobrand=N&file=help_legal.html#terms. As a user of eLance , you have agreed comply with all eLance policies on the release of contact information between users, as described here and elsewhere on the site, and which restrict you from releasing your email address to other users using eLance, until such time as you agree to make a transaction with another eLance user. The message that was posted is listed below: W8R.COM 473176 Hey anybody wants a copy of the Elance Guarantee Program Follow Up email me and it's yours for $5. Email --**-- 10:08 pm 01/Dec/2000 Due to this violation, we regret to inform you that we are forced to suspend your account. 04:24 pm 06/Dec/2000 504864 You too 2kul.... 04:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 504860 Aedyn........ 04:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 504855 As everyone knows to contact me goto: http://lostincyberspace.bizland.com page of investor addresses will be up within about 18 hours later.. 04:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 504851 This sucks! I like Steve. :( 04:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 504840 Hi Mom24, nice to meet you. 04:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 504838 Hi Aedyn! I just forwarded the letter to you....any questions, 04:23 pm 06/Dec/2000 504826 Fred, Steve will be posting ALL emails he has received from elance since joining the water cooler on the 2kul.com site. 04:22 pm 06/Dec/2000 504798 So I guess I am next because I complain about he payment system and turn in flase project postings to customer service..well the url will be up tommorrow to give elance's investment partners an ear full be ready with your keyboard..going to log off be back soon.. 04:22 pm 06/Dec/2000 504792 That works, kul. 04:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 504783 Hi MOM!!! :) I was beginning to worry about you. 04:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 504775 entropymail@ 04:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 504767 Who owns elance anyway? I'll write them a letter or two. 04:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 504762 Entropy, they cut off your access. You can't log in. 04:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 504757 come on everybody, post your address -- I wanna see if they can keep up . . . 04:21 pm 06/Dec/2000 504754 I've got nothing to lose. (Probably shouldn't be so proud of that, huh?) ;) 04:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 504750 you can reach me 04:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 504744 Consider me in, as I just sent eLance an email too! 2Kul, welcome to the board, you don't know how happy I am to see you here! Aedyn, unfortunately, this is not a joke, Steve was suspended. I wish I had a way to contact you..... 04:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 504740 Where's ssgzo when you need him? 04:20 pm 06/Dec/2000 504730 Okay thats it tommorrow morning there will be a website page with all the investment partner eamil addresses posted here for everyone to complain too..so log into next morning and look for my messsage time for battle.. 04:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 504713 I move that Elance is unfairly biased in the favor of buyers at the expense of freelancers. Who will second this? 04:19 pm 06/Dec/2000 504705 Well, Fred, they never made $4,000 off of W8R's transactions, most of his big paying projects were before the transaction fee. But they consider it no loss to shut him down beause he is so vehemently against their guarantee program and won't participate in the faulty payment system. And besides, he is a big troublemaker in here. 04:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 504696 Next email will be goign to elance.com's investment parnetrs I hope they like heat and fire! 04:18 pm 06/Dec/2000 504690 So, what does suspension mean, anyway? Do you have to stay after school? Do they revoke your checkmark? Do they make you bid on 40 or 50 RFPs before you actually get a job -- and then not get paid for it? (Oh, no, sorry, that one's not suspension -- that's just eLance hell). 04:17 pm 06/Dec/2000 504683 --**-- Will that get me in trouble now? Who cares! Not like I'm making money here anyway. Too many phony buyers and dumb providers who'll do anything for a buck! :þ 04:17 pm 06/Dec/2000 504679 Thanks, paaron. It is the selectivity in the process that proves they just do what they want and have no concpet of fairness which is what Steve has been griping about all month. 04:17 pm 06/Dec/2000 504666 I though it was 10% which is $4,000 or was I wrong? I just sent a polite note to cusotmer service to see if they can admit what they did..I am not holding my breath 04:16 pm 06/Dec/2000 504655 Alrighty everybody, ante up your e-mails, we'll keep them busy for awhile . . . eh? 04:16 pm 06/Dec/2000 504647 well..i did just send them this anyway.. Market Maker..you play dirty..what are you going to do..suspend everyone who has posted their email on the cooler? You have singled out W8R.com because you made a mistake. Own up to your own mistakes and show some of the integrity that your providers show. You will be hearing from me DAILY until W8R. COM's account is restored. liais 04:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 504630 elance: which of the following describes you best? A) an experiment with deep pockets B) a mammouth money pit C) in the red D) feeling the heat from investors 04:15 pm 06/Dec/2000 504616 I think if elance is going to make an example of steve they better get off their butts, and suspend EVERYONE who ever posted an email address on a bid, message board, or profile! 04:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 504614 Well, Entropy, I may just have to put Steve's Christmas Card to the elance world up on my site. 04:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 504610 --**-- 04:14 pm 06/Dec/2000 504588 Fred, it is $40,000. Thanks. 04:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 504585 Apparently not. You know, if you ask me, it was the phallic Christmas card that did it. People can only take so much! ;) 04:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 504573 Somebody capable of forwarding to Aedyn? Please do. 04:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 504569 What the hellsomeone brings in $4,000 per year to elance and they suspend the guy becasue he posted something on this board..I mean do they like shooting their own foot or what? 04:13 pm 06/Dec/2000 504552 Wait for what, Entropy? Does it look like I'm waiting? 04:12 pm 06/Dec/2000 504540 Hmmm...still trying to figure out if this is for real. {{{raises one eyebrow}}} 04:12 pm 06/Dec/2000 504519 Wanna shake up some trouble now, or are you gonna wait a while? 04:11 pm 06/Dec/2000 504517 I'll bid $5 that elance is broke or a money pit for its owners anyhow. It's just not run like a business that works. 04:11 pm 06/Dec/2000 504508 Well, good to see you kul. 04:10 pm 06/Dec/2000 504498 What I would like to know is, why did eLance suspend Steve but never (as far as I know) suspended any of those providers stating "check out my website at www.blahblahblah.com" in their bids? Seems a little selective to me. 04:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 504492 2KUL will alwyas be W8R's biggest fan, Entropy, and will carry the banner while he is gone. 04:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 504490 what email addresses can I email too?? 04:09 pm 06/Dec/2000 504480 oh no, eLance is out for the buyer and the money.... ::::LOOKS BACK AND WAVES FOR ALL TO FOLLOW, ARMS WAVING CRAZILY IN THE AIR:::: :::ALMOST TRIPS OVER HIS OWN FEET:::: 04:08 pm 06/Dec/2000 504475 Oh, it's unquestionably personal and it's venal, and petty and oh, so very transparent. . . . and pathetic. 04:08 pm 06/Dec/2000 504472 Well, Jo, elance doesn't really care what oyu think, unfortunately, that rings loud and clear in here. 04:08 pm 06/Dec/2000 504469 2kul, see the suspensions hasn't cramped your style! 04:08 pm 06/Dec/2000 504463 <---- runs after Ron, chanting... GET MARKETMAKER! GET MARKETMAKER! GET MARKETMAKER!... 04:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 504457 liais - what is the email address?? 04:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 504456 elance is nothing more than a place to entertain the notion of a real online freelance market anyway! Who's anyone kidding? elance is not out for the freelancer. period. 04:07 pm 06/Dec/2000 504446 I guess what I meant to say was if it were going to cost them (as it most assuredly will over the long run -- W8R being such a powerhouse) -- would they back down? 04:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 504440 wait 2kul.com , who are you? 04:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 504436 Aedyn- People say I lost my marbles in the 60s...but the wierd part is I WASN'T EVEN BORN YET! :) 04:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 504434 Rpolka it was suspended because Steve posted a joke about selling their stupid letter he inadvertently got from Hilary via his email address. You can read it below though it will repeatedly be posted here again enough times. 04:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 504430 well personally I am emailing service and market maker to let them know what I think of this..and I will remind them DAILY that until Steve is restored or Equal treatment for ALL that have posted contact info.. this is personal..this has nothing to do with rules.. 04:06 pm 06/Dec/2000 504419 :::running down the hall, footsteps of hard soled shows against waxed tile floor:::: "I'M GOING TO KIDNAP MARKET MAKER!!", he says out of breath as he continues down the hall... 04:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 504412 He has work obviously, but the present action cuts him off from the buyers and keeps him from bidding or speaking his mind in here. 04:05 pm 06/Dec/2000 504405 --**-- You are one weird puppy! (I mean that in a good way, of course.) ;) 04:04 pm 06/Dec/2000 504389 I think so too, Ron. I smell a rat. :) 04:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 504387 Will W8R escape the suspension of doom? Does he stand a chance against the marketmaker? Tune in next week! Same bat time....Same bat channel! 04:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 504383 I still show the current pic . . . . hmmm, I wonder what would happen if W8R was suddenly flooded with direct contact requests to perform work -- what would they do? 04:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 504370 Nuh uh..they didn't do that to his pic...this is a joke..lol 04:03 pm 06/Dec/2000 504360 What? eLance SUCKS!! How many freakin buyers listen to the rules they AGREED to go by?? How many buyers have put their info on boards?? Do they get suspended, no! Why? They bring eLance money...this is sick.. 04:02 pm 06/Dec/2000 504344 No more W8R? :( 04:01 pm 06/Dec/2000 504340 They also took down his current pic in his profile and put up an old one with the IQSP logo, which he is not a part of. 04:01 pm 06/Dec/2000 504336 Oh yeah..this is DIRTY.. 04:01 pm 06/Dec/2000 504321 WHAT HAPPENED TO W8R!!!! I'm holding market maker hostage until they give us W8R back!!!! What could he have possibly done wrong! I liked the guy, and he always helped and was very professional...what happened? 04:00 pm 06/Dec/2000 504310 Why would his account be suspended without any warning, and other people's not? 03:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 504307 sorry -- I'm slow. That is just too ridiculous. 03:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 504297 What does suspended mean? Can he return? 03:59 pm 06/Dec/2000 504288 Looks like they couldn't wait to nix W8. 03:58 pm 06/Dec/2000 504271 No! What happened? 03:57 pm 06/Dec/2000 504262 The did this after Hilary made a personal reques tto Steve to not post any contents from the Follow Up letter, which she claimed was inadvertently sent to him, and he agreed. That request came after this joke with the email was posted here, and nowhere else. 03:57 pm 06/Dec/2000 504247 rpolka - he got the following message formelance today: It has come to our attention that you have recently posted contact information on the General Message Board. Please note this is a violation of our Terms and Conditions as posted at http://www.elance.com/c/static/main/displayhtml.pl?&cobrand=N&file=help_legal.html#terms. As a user of eLance , you have agreed comply with all eLance policies on the release of contact information between users, as described here and elsewhere on the site, and which restrict you from releasing your email address to other users using eLance, until such time as you agree to make a transaction with another eLance user. The message that was posted is listed below: W8R.COM 473176 Hey anybody wants a copy of the Elance Guarantee Program Follow Up email me and it's yours for $5. Email --**-- 10:08 pm 01/Dec/2000 Due to this violation, we regret to inform you that we are forced to suspend your account. 03:55 pm 06/Dec/2000 504230 what???? why was his account suspended???? 03:55 pm 06/Dec/2000 504219 For those of you tired of W8R you will be glad to know his account was suspended. 03:54 pm 06/Dec/2000